Representative Denny Hoskins (r) - Town Halls: campus conceal carry

by: Michael Bersin Sun Jun 21, 2009 at 11:28:05 AM CDT

On Friday, June 19th, Representative Denny Hoskins (r - noun, verb, CPA) held town halls in Holden, Warrensburg, and Knob Noster. The events, in the middle of the day, were sparsely attended. The liveliest exchanges were in Warrensburg and came from one individual who pressed representative Hoskins on two issues. We've previously covered the first exchange, on regressive taxes in: Representative Denny Hoskins (r) - Town Halls: was for the "fair" tax before he was against it The second question, concerning conceal carry on university campuses, came at the end of the Warrensburg town hall, with the exchanges including a third person in the audience who had been using a small video camera to tape the town hall. This statement by representative Hoskins early in the exchange "...And I, I received a lot of positive feedback from people who were for that as well, um, through e-mails..." was striking because we don't have any way of confirming the content or quantity of those e-mails on the subject, since Representative Hoskins has asserted through the Clerk of the House that a request for that specific information [addressed to] from Representative Hoskins cannot be honored because the Missouri Sunshine Law does not apply: Denny Hoskins (r): not a big fan of governmental transparency "...1. All written and electronic correspondence with administrators, faculty, and students at the University of Central Missouri concerning legislation pertaining to the issue of concealed and carry of firearms in Missouri...." The transcript of the conceal carry discussion at the Warrensburg town hall: ...Representative Denny Hoskins:...Other questions? Yes. Question: Can you give me your philosophy as a representative I, and I ask this question within the context of the concealed carry bill? Representative Hoskins: Yes. Question: Because on our conversation, we had a private conversation over the phone about this, you told, you did not vote initially for the amendment when it came up, you, you were doing something else. Representative Hoskins: All right. Question: The, the [garbled]. And you were going to investigate it and you were going to talk to those people who were directly involved in the conceal and carry. [crosstalk] Representative Hoskins: Right. Question: And I know you received then, communication from the Faculty Senate which voted overwhelmingly against [garbled] conceal carry permit holders. The Students, who voted overwhelmingly against conceal and carry. I know you had communications with the head of Public Security, um, the university that said he was against it and moreover, his statewide organization had a resolution in February against it. Representative Hoskins: Right...

Michael Bersin :: Representative Denny Hoskins (r) - Town Halls: campus conceal carry

...Question: The Board of Trustees voted against it. Given all of this information from your constituents you still voted for it. Can you explain your philosophy as our representative, explaining that? Representative Hoskins: [garbled] And I, I received a lot of positive feedback from people who were for that as well, um, through e-mails and, and conversations that I had with...[crosstalk] Question: As I pointed out, the Student Government Association, the Board of Trustees, the faculty, and the administration in overwhelming numbers voted against it. That's all. Or, urged you to, to vote against it. Representative Hoskins: Right, right. What it, what it came down to, and I did a lot of research on this. Um.... there has not been one incident, not only in Missouri, but the United States, with a conceal and carry permit holder committing a crime. And...[crosstalk] Question: What? Representative Hoskins: With their concealed firearm. Question: What? Not a single one? Representative Hoskins: I know, I know, it's, it's ...[crosstalk] Question: No, that's not true, of course. That's not true, of course. [crosstalk] But, thank you. Representative Hoskins: We'll disagree to, we'll disagree to disagree. Uh, you know, there are other colleges and universities that allowed it, including Virginia's community colleges, um, I believe Utah, Colorado, Colorado State has not had one incident. There's not been one incident on, by any college or university on col..., on campus where a conceal and carry permit holder has committed a crime with a concealed firearm, committed suicide, had their firearm stolen, uh, there, there's just none. When Missouri first originally passed their conceal and carry law, you know, opponents to it said, "Oh, there's gonna be shoot outs in the streets. It's gonna be quick draw style." That's simply not happened. Ever. Not only in Missouri, but in the United States. And, I could not find one, uh, you know, I support the Second Amendment, and I could not find one incident that that ever happened. And based on that and multitude of other things, including the Appalachian Law School, where they had a, a armed assailant come in, uh, to actually, I don't know if they were reserve police officers or off duty police officers, went out and, uh, got their firearms out of their vehicles. And, you know, currently at the university...[crosstalk] Question: Can I ask a question about that? [crosstalk] Representative Hoskins: ...conceal carry...[crosstalk] Question: 'Cause that's really interesting. Representative Hoskins: Um, hm. Question: They were reserve police officers. Is their right to have a gun, the training they go through, the same as what the training or the licensing for conceal and carry permit holders in the State of Missouri? Representative Hoskins: Well, my understanding is that [garbled][inaudible].[crosstalk] Question: Right, right, right. But, but, but, did their ability to have conceal and carry, their right to have one, as police officers, the equivalent of how you get a conceal and per..., per..., conceal and carry permit in the State of Missouri? Or was it perhaps just that test? Their test was slightly higher than what it takes to be a conceal and carry permit holder [crosstalk] in Missouri. Representative Hoskins: I, I know that in, in the State of Missouri there's lots of things you have [garbled]. You can name the requirements for conceal and carry? Question: You bet. And it has, right. And, and, you know what the accurate, you know what the training is and what you have to demonstrate, proficiency you have to demonstrate? Representative Hoskins: I've heard the...[crosstalk] Third person in audience: Twenty out of twenty-five. [crosstalk] Representative Hoskins: I know that you...[crosstalk] Third person in audience: Twenty out of twenty-five. Question: Twenty out of twenty-five. How far away? Third person in audience: Seven yards. Question: Seven yards. So if you hit twenty out of twenty-five at seven yards you [garbled] have a conceal carry permit. And, and how often are you retrained? [fourth voice in background, inaudible] Third person in audience: You don't have to retrain. Question: Oh, so once you do it...[crosstalk] Third person in audience: you're responsible...[crosstalk] Question: ...that's it. In, is that how...[crosstalk] Third person in audience: You're responsible for bringing yourself...[crosstalk] Representative Hoskins: You have to take a background check. [crosstalk] Question: What? [crosstalk] No, no, no.[crosstalk] [in reaction to the interruption] Third person in audience:Yes, yes you're fingerprinted at the sheriff's office. You have to do, pass a background check...[crosstalk] Question: Right. Third person in audience: ...both federal and state. As well as, if you have an unpaid parking ticket, you cannot get your conceal carry license. So, it's not like you're getting, if, if someone's going to commit a crime...they're not going to be concerned with whether or not they're supposed to have that gun. If I was gonna go kill a teacher, God forbid, I wouldn't care, care if that, the least of my concerns would be whether or not I was supposed to have that gun in the first place. That would be the least of my concerns. Question: So, no, no, no. I want to get this right though. But, once you pass it, you're never retested. Third person in audience: Right. Question: Police officers, once they become a police officer, they're never tested on a gun again? Representative Hoskins: Once I get my hunter safety permit I don't have to get my hunter...[crosstalk] Question: No, no, no, we're talking about, you're talking about the Appalachian State case. I mean, I talked to Bob Ahring [Director of Public Safety, University of Central Missouri], they are tested quarterly...[crosstalk] Representative Hoskins: Right. Question:...on guns. Representative Hoskins: Right. Question: Okay, if you want to allow...[crosstalk] Representative Hoskins: Would you be okay...[crosstalk] Question:...If you want to allow people to have guns where I work to make me safe, then have them meet the requirements of a regular police officer, if the Appalachian State is your example of why conceal and carry will make me safe. Representative Hoskins: I think education...[crosstalk] Question: Why don't you do that? [crosstalk] Representative Hoskins: ...is an important part of it. Question: Why, why don't you introduce that bill? Representative Hoskins: That's a, that's an interesting concept. I'll look into that. So, you'd be for having conceal and carry...[crosstalk] on campus if they had to take additional training... Question: Yeah, if a conceal and carry permit holder equals what a police officer has to go through. You bet. Representative Hoskins: All right. Question: And they regularly are retested quarterly the way the people charge of keeping me safe do now. Will you do that? Third person in audience: You think the likelihood that police officer will be in a shootout versus the likelihood that a normal citizen would be in a shootout may have something to do with the training requirements? Question: Um, by the way, did you follow what happened at Holocaust, the Holocaust Museum? Third person in audience: Yes. Question: Who, who got Roeder? [von Brunn has been charged with the Holocaust Museum murder, Roeder has been charged with the Tiller murder in Wichita] Third person in audience: The what? Question: Who, who got Roeder? Third person in audience: I can't understand what you're saying. Question: Who got the guy who went in...[crosstalk]? Third person in audience: The security guards did. [crosstalk] Question: Thank you. Representative Hoskins: You know, there, there's other examples that, you know, we had an unfortunate incident in Kirkwood City Hall. And, you know, the guy went in there, the assailant, the murderer, and he knew that there was two police officers in that building. One outside and one inside. So what did he do? He went, and he knew that conceal and carry was not allowed in the city council, uh, meeting, so, he went and killed the police officer in the parking lot. He went inside and killed the police officer inside. And then he had free rein inside the, uh, city council and killed two city council members, unfortunately. So, you know, there's, there's examples both ways. Question: So, are you going to allow people in the gallery in the House have con... guns? 'Cause they can't now. I've looked at the legislation, sir. They cannot now. Representative Hoskins: I, I wouldn't be against that. Question: Why don't you introduce that as your legislation then? So that your colleagues could, people in the gallery can have guns in case somebody enters. Representative Hoskins: Well, and, and they currently, uh, they can have them out in the hallways. It's just that they can't have them in any, uh, I think...[crosstalk] Question: Well you're worried about the Kirkwood case, though? Representative Hoskins: Right. Question: Don't you think you ought to have armed citizens sitting above you as you debate, uh, legislation on the floor of [crosstalk] the General Assembly? Representative Hoskins: If they're, uh, properly trained and law abiding [crosstalk] citizens. Question: Then intro..., why don't you introduce that, too? The next time you want to make me safe, why don't you make yourself safe and introduce the same thing? End the, the restriction in the House for conceal and carry? Representative Hoskins: ...but...[crosstalk] Question: If Kirkwood is, is your, if...[crosstalk] Representative Hoskins: I, I didn't introduce the legislation, so...[crosstalk] Question: Yeah, but you're my representative. Representative Hoskins: I know. Question: You voted to, to have guns where I work. You understand why I'm concerned about this? Third person in audience: Are you concerned when you go to Wal-mart? Because people go to Wal-mart. Are you concerned when you walk down the street? Because people walk down the street with guns all the time. [crosstalk] Question: Sir, I drove a taxicab in the City of Chicago for five years. Third person in audience: Profess...[crosstalk] Question: You bet. And no gun was gonna keep me safe. And when I finally had one pointed at the back of my head, had I pulled one out, he'd of got me before I got him...[crosstalk] Third person in audience: [garbled]...they don't have that in Illinois...[crosstalk] Question: What? He'd of killed me before. Third person in audience: Illinois doesn't have a conceal carry permit. Representative Hoskins: Sir, where, where do you think that, uh, guns should be allowed? Question: Ooh, I, lord knows, having hit a deer, we gotta have, we gotta kill deer in this state. Oh, I love hunters. Please kill deer. Please kill the deer. But I don't, you think I need a gun in here in this library right now? You think I, I, I feel unsafe? Do you feel unsafe? Because nobody has a gun? Representative Hoskins: [inaudible] All right. Thank you....

Support gun show loophole bill

"Despite the NRA's whipping gun owners into a buying frenzy over the notion that President Obama and the Democrats are coming after their guns — a hysteria that has led to a surge of sales at gun shows nationwide — Senator Lautenberg's gun show loophole bill does no such thing. It simply insists — in the interest of public safety — that you clear a criminal background check before buying a gun." – The Nation, June 3, 2009
Dear Todd,
The NRA's leaders are masters of "spin." Their rhetoric about confiscating guns is feeding an extremist agenda that leads to senseless deaths.
They've cowed our lawmakers and the public into thinking that any effort to strengthen gun laws — like closing the gun show loophole — is a threat to individual rights and to our nation's freedom.
In April, a Pittsburgh man, fed by the gun lobby's fear-mongering, shot 3 police officers with an assault rifle because he was afraid that an "Obama gun ban" would lead to his "rights being infringed upon."
The recent shooting of Dr. George Tiller in Wichita, Kansas, is another horrific example of where gun lobby rhetoric can lead, and how easy it is for dangerous people to get dangerous weapons. We need to act now to strengthen gun laws.
The man who shot Dr. Tiller had been arrested for the criminal use of explosives. According to his siblings, he also had a history of mental illness. And a colleague with the anti-government Freemen group called him a "fanatic" on the issue of abortion.
Please support the Brady Campaign's fight for sane gun laws —
including closing the gun show loophole.
The Brady Campaign is pushing back — pushing for sensible gun laws — on Capitol Hill, in the media, and on the ground with our activists. That's why we need your help right now.
Please make a contribution to the Brady Campaign to counter the gun lobby's crusade of fear. We need your voice for common sense gun laws.
In the interest of public safety — of saving 80 lives a day — we have to make our country's gun laws stronger. Please donate to the Brady Campaign today.

Sincerely,

Paul Helmke, President
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

Despite Recent Violence, Gun Laws Are Softening | Parade.com

Despite Recent Violence, Gun Laws Are Softening | Parade.com

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NRA gun case appeal heads to high court

By Joan Biskupic, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — One year after the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep handguns, the justices have before them a new test of that right.
The National Rifle Association has appealed a ruling from a U.S. appeals court in Chicago that said the right to bear arms cannot be invoked by gun owners challenging state and local firearm regulations. It said the high court's groundbreaking decision last term in a case from Washington, D.C., allows the Second Amendment to cover only regulations by the federal government — at least until the high court weighs in again.

If the justices decide to take up the appeal, it would probably be heard next fall by a bench that could include Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor, who is now on a federal appeals court in New York. She was part of a court panel in January that similarly held that the 2008 gun decision did not apply to state regulations.

A U.S. appeals court in San Francisco, however, ruled this year that the Second Amendment indeed covers state gun restrictions.

"Because of the split in opinions (on the breadth of the 2008 ruling), it seems likely that the court would take it," says Daniel Vice, a lawyer with the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. He says a ruling could affect gun laws nationwide.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: Ronald Reagan | National Rifle Association | Antonin Scalia | Sonia Sotomayor | Gun Owners of America | Frank H. Easterbrook
The June 2008 decision, decided by a 5-4 vote, said for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep handguns at home for self-protection. A 1939 high court decision had led lower courts and many legal analysts to believe the Second Amendment covered firearm rights only for state militias such as National Guard units.

The new decision in National Rifle Association v. Chicago by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit in Chicago, written by conservative Ronald Reagan appointee Frank Easterbrook, echoes the closely scrutinized decision from a three-judge panel of the U.S. appeals court for the 2nd Circuit that included Sotomayor.

She joined an opinion that rejected a challenge to a New York ban on certain weapons used in martial arts and emphasized that the high court has never specifically ruled that the Second Amendment can be applied to state regulations. That 2nd Circuit decision, Maloney v. Cuomo, provoked some gun rights groups to protest Sotomayor's nomination. The Virginia-based Gun Owners of America called her "an anti-gun radical."

Last Tuesday's decision by the 7th Circuit undercuts criticism that the Sotomayor panel decision was extreme. As Easterbrook wrote, specifically agreeing with the 2nd Circuit, the Supreme Court said in the 2008 case involving a District of Columbia handgun ban that it was not deciding whether the Second Amendment covered state or local regulations.

Justice Antonin Scalia, who authored the high court decision, noted that the case arose from the federal enclave of Washington, D.C., and that past cases said the Second Amendment covers only the federal government. With a new case from a state or municipality, the court could extend the reach of the Second Amendment.

Until then, Easterbrook wrote in the case involving handgun bans in Chicago and Oak Park, an appeals court may not "strike off on its own." He said that would undermine the uniformity of the nation's laws.

The NRA's Stephen Halbrook, representing Chicago and Oak Park residents who want to keep handguns at home, urged the justices to take up the 7th Circuit case to resolve the reach of last term's ruling.

Halbrook said the right to guns "allows one to protect life itself."

Tell Rep. Carnahan to cosponsor HR 2324 to the Gun Show Loophole

am asking you to urge Rep. Carnahan to cosponsor legislation to close the gun show loophole.

In most states, anyone can walk into a gun show and buy guns — like AK-47s — from unlicensed sellers without a Brady criminal background check. That makes no sense.

Representatives Mike Castle (R-DE) and Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) recently introduced a bill, H.R. 2324, to close the gun show loophole. Now they need your help to add cosponsors to the bill.

Click here to e-mail Rep. Carnahan and ask them to cosponsor H.R.2324.

Gun shows provide the venue, advertising, and audience for many unregulated gun sellers. Therefore, closing the loophole that allows them to sell guns without Brady background checks makes sense for the safety of our families and communities.

Click here to e-mail Rep. Russ Carnahan today to urge them to cosponsor H.R. 2324 to close the gun show loophole.

Know that the gun lobby will be fighting us every step of the way with its mantra "any gun, anywhere, for anybody." So we can't do this without you.

Your Representative needs to hear from you today. And you can help even more — please click here to forward this e-mail to your friends. Everyone's help is needed to make our communities safer.

Thank you for all your ongoing support!

Sincerely,

Sarah Brady, Chair

P.S. U.S. Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) has introduced legislation in the Senate to close the gun show loophole. If you haven't already, please click here to urge your U.S. Senators to cosponsor S. 843.

If this e-mail was forwarded to you, click here to sign up for your own Brady Campaign alerts.

Donate to Support the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

You can also mail a check to:
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
1225 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20005

Reporter reacts to the shooting

Here is a video of me speaking about the shooting on Feb. 9, 2008.

Click here for the video.

My Story

 

My Story

“I still see the faces of the people…that died that day…” Here at Bullet Counter Points we like to highlight the exceptional work that everyday Ameri Today we focus on the victim of a horrible shooting tragedy that has turned his grief and trauma into a determination to help others.

On the evening of February 7, 2008, Todd Smith, a reporter for the Kirkwood-Webster Journal, was covering a city council meeting at Kirkwood City Hall in Missouri. Just after the meeting began, Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton—a local resident who had been embroiled in a long running property dispute with the City of Kirkwood—entered the chambers and opened fire with two handguns, a .44 Magnum revolver and a .40 caliber handgun (the latter of which had been taken from a police officer Thornton killed in the parking lot outside the meeting). Before he was stopped by police, Thornton killed a total of five people (two police officers, two city council members, and Kirkwood’s public works director) and wounded two others. One of the wounded was Kirkwood Mayor Mike Swoboda, who would finally succumb to his head injuries and pass away seven months later. Also wounded was Todd, who was seated in the front row at the meeting and shot in the hand. He told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, “[Thornton] was completely possessed … He looked at me directly and I felt complete rage.”

Like most of those present at the meeting that night, Todd was familiar with Thornton and his grievances. “I had seen him before at other city council meetings, and on one occasion he decided to speak at a council meeting and I decided to ask him what his issues were,” he recalls. “I had trouble understanding him and what he was wanting—he seemed angry and I had just started on Kirkwood beat and did not know his whole history. Even at this particular meeting he was somewhat incoherent and erratic and wearing a sign on his body in protest of the Kirkwood City Council.”

Sadly, this was not the first time Todd had been a victim of gun violence. He describes another traumatic incident that occurred more than a decade earlier:

“I had moved to New Castle, Delaware. A few days after July 4, 1997, I went to a nearby 7-Eleven around 9:00 p.m. I purchased a soda and was walking through a shopping center when two teenagers came up behind me with guns in their hands. They asked for money. I ran, and one of them shot at me. They ran away. I kept walking, but noticed there was blood coming from the back of my leg. I made it to a gas station that was across the street. I told the clerk to call 911. A guy getting gas noticed me sitting down in front of the gas station and took off his shirt and it was used as a tourniquet to stop my bleeding. I never saw this man again, and wish I had the chance to thank him. About 30 minutes after the shooting, an ambulance arrived on the scene and took me to a nearby hospital. A doctor came to see me and studied the wound and decided to pull the bullet out. He did numb the area, but I remember it being a painful process. I was in the hospital for three days before being released. The African-American teenagers that committed the act were never found. A police officer did come by once, I looked at pictures, but it was hard to tell who it was. I only saw them briefly, it was dark out, and their faces were partially covered.”

Todd’s recovery from these violent episodes has been difficult. The injuries he sustained in the Kirkwood shooting required two surgeries, the second of which involved a joint replacement. “I will never fully recover from this incident,” he says. “Emotionally, I have come a long way, but have a ways to go. I still have a fear of being alone at night and have fears of being in a setting with a large group of people.”

Despite the trauma he has been through, however, Todd wants to create something positive from his experience. “I feel the need to be a spokesperson on gun control,” he says. “The victims in Kirkwood were expecting to leave the meeting to go home and be with their families, like any other night. Instead, they never had a chance to say goodbye to their loved ones. I think there is something to be said about stronger gun control measures so people can go on living with the people they care about.”

Todd notes, “I am not against guns. I grew up around guns. I lived in a rural area, where people hunted and worked at a gun club. I would not like to see people’s right to have a gun taken away. I just believe in properly screening those who want to purchase guns, and developing ways to identify guns so that we know where they came from and where they were originally purchased.”

He has contacted the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and become involved in their Program for Victims and Survivors. Todd will take part in legislative advocacy efforts at the federal and state level, and reach out to other journalists to educate them about gun violence prevention. Still, some memories do not go away easily. “I still see the faces of the people that were friends of mine that died that day in Kirkwood,” Todd says. “One did her best to help people like Thornton. She worked to make sure that the council considered the views of constituents so their concerns were always heard and represented. I also will never forget Kirkwood Police Officer Tom Ballman. He stood up when Thornton pulled out his guns and in that instant he was killed. This image will haunt me for the rest of my life. “The instantaneous ending of a human life—which guns allow for—should not be allowed.”

For more information go to the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence at

http://www.csgv.org/site/pp.aspx?c=pmL5JnO7KzE&b=3509205.